Pressure on pharmacists’ wages a global trend

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1. at 01:06 PM on 26 August 2010, alien wrote:
   I am fourth year pharmacy student and the way I see my future and the market is that pharmacists are becoming poorer and poorer, while the owners are becoming richer and richer.
2. at 09:47 PM on 25 August 2010, Peter Peter wrote:
   @Fred: Mate if you start a union I will join for sure!! Do it.
3. at 09:45 AM on 25 August 2010, Fred wrote:
   I have recently been registered and agree with what others have commented about our industry. There is undoubtedly oversupply of students,graduates and pharmacists. I found it difficult to locate a prereg position and applied to over 40 pharmacies. I took the first offer. It's disgusting how low the pre-reg wages were <$17/hr. Since then, I've been registered for about 6 months and everyday I think about leaving the pharmacy profession and I'm sure many others have considered it. I work for one of the largest groups but get paid one of the lowest wages $30/hr. The question is, Why don't I just become a coffee barista or work as a checkout chick with less hassle and getting paid penalty rates with overtime. I know that's above minimum wage ($24/hr) but I was locuming at more than 10 locations across brisbane and outskirts of brisbane (up to 2 hours away) doing more than 50 hrs/wk. What's their excuse....there's too many pharmacists. I see the resumes of the 20+ applicants that apply for jobs sitting on the table waiting to be sorted through. I don't want to leave to go elsewhere and risk having no job at all. We have no bargaining power because there is always someone more desperate to work longer hours for a lower price. In the end its all about the margin and bottom dollar. Why are we working in a profession where we stand on our feet all day, eat on the go with no breaks, struggle to go for a bathroom break, work like dispense monkeys dispensing X amount of scripts, get abused from customers because "customers are always right" and best of all get paid bare minimum. With only one pharmacist on, all it takes is one elderly patient trying to have a discussion with you which goes on and on and on, next thing you know there are 10 baskets on the shelf waiting. Then you have to deal with the disgruntle customers that have been waiting. For those that have been in the industry for 20-30 plus years, you probably aren't too worried. But for some of us who are newly registered the future doesn't look too bright. I've only been at it for 6 months and it seems like a lifetime of knowledge that i have gathered. I think its going to become worse as margins become tighter as small pharmacy owners struggle to compete with the "big three" and pay their debts. We as pharmacists will have to do more and get paid less whilst the guild (representing pharmacy owners) is looking out for their best interests which is growth in monetary terms. If there is no monetary growth then you are making a loss, its just basic business sense. Who's going to represent us? we should represent ourselves!
4. at 11:20 PM on 20 August 2010, hyundi wrote:
   This is the most staggering piece of gall I have ever read. What about the outrageous rort where existing pharmacies can stop competing ones from opening within 1.5km, which has made multi millionaires of the pharmacists who hold this monopoly, while consumers pay the price? As a matter of government priority, this outrageous government backed monopoly must be stopped.
5. at 01:10 PM on 19 August 2010, mel wrote:
   I am a North American pharmacist who just spent the past two years working in Australia and I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with comments on this site encouraging young people to explore other career options! There are 20-30 applicants for each pharmacist position in large cities, and a major recruitment agency for pharmacy says that some registered graduates have been working as a locum for two years without securing a full time position. Pharmacists carry far too much responsibility to work for the same rate as someone who has not even gone to university. It is a very stressful profession, especially in a high volume store. And pay rates aside: with 20 applicants per job, owners will feel no pressure to provide optimal (or even passable) working conditions. Why pay for a second pharmacist to handle a high volume of scripts if you can find a pharmacist who is so desperate for a job that he will agree to work as a sole pharmacist, come in early and stay late, work as a script processing robot instead of the health care professional that he was trained to be, etc etc. As workload for pharmacists increase, so does stress levels and the chance of errors. I would be very interested in hearing from pharmacy graduates who have transfered their skills to a different another profession.... Allan, which career did you switch to?
6. at 08:50 AM on 16 August 2010, Anonymous wrote:
   Actually Jim, physiotherapy would be equally maligned as pharmacy if all the sports stores had a monopoly over the entire physical services industry and physiotherapists could only set up private practice by giving a cut to the sports store guild (which actively implements strategies to oversupply physios to the market so supply-demand is imbalanced in their favour). At least physios can leverage their knowledge with an independent business model. You don't quite realise until you are an HMR pharmacist how much this limits your ability to grow a business. You do have a point, Jim, that pharmacy is not the only one. This is very true with all my peers struggling to get into the money (even the one at Goldman Sachs). But I have reason to believe that the current pharmacy environment is worse than the banking industry which got hit by the biggest financial cyclone in 80 years!!
7. at 11:25 PM on 10 August 2010, jim wrote:
   You guys all brag about how bad pharmacy is.... I was going to go for physiotherapy and become a physiotherapist (b/c I liked it...) But I think they are equally in worse shape. (This is what I've been hearing a lot) Oh 1 thing, if you want to counter my argument above about Physiotherapy, PLEASE provide some real evidence like weblinks & stuff that shows how physio grads and wages are doing.
8. at 03:27 PM on 9 August 2010, eddy wrote:
   Don’t study pharmacy, otherwise you will be regretting. Pharmacists are unprotected species. There are other jobs have higher pay than pharmacy and do not carry the same load of work. The Guild is useless organisation. They talk a lot of unrealistic thing. We will be deteriorated further if we continue to let the Guild represent the profession.
9. at 12:43 AM on 8 August 2010, Allan wrote:
   I graduated in 2004 from Syd uni. Couldn't find an intern position. Changed careers - best decision I've made. Advice to anyone considering or doing pharmacy: Get out now. Don't do it. There are many other professions out there that pay more, require less education and are less stressful. The Guild DOES NOT represent pharmacists. They are made up of and represent OWNERS of pharmacies. This is a fact. The number one cost to any business is staff wages. What better way than collude with universities to pump graduates out to lower wages. To do this day, I regret taking up pharmacy. Massive waste of time, money and effort all for nothing. Don't do it and don't listen to the crap about how there's a shortage or that pharmacy is a great career on enrolment day. It's a lie.
10. at 09:07 AM on 7 August 2010, Terry Ravizm wrote:
    @Anonymous: I never said I am worth more (although your trite comments make me suspect it); I merely GET more. This is not communism, not socialism; it's capitalism! You keep referring to equality and mysterious sources of value that just don't bolt on to reality. And it's not anger talk, it's the dominant talk of someone at the top swatting the petulant and undeserving. Join the Guild, all other groups are bootless.
11. at 05:44 PM on 4 August 2010, Anonymous wrote:
    @Terry Lovely! So you've now resorted to name calling? I was merely pointing out that making money from pharmacy as a business versus a service provider is different. You think you're worth more as a pharmacist compared to those you hire? Tell us why. That's what I asked you to begin with and you evaded the question. "Yes I paid for my GT3 with 'pharmacy service dollars'" - wow, what a currency that is. Come and work for me and I'll pay you award plus $100 pharmacy service dollars/hour. Sounds like anger speaking. Not very constructive.
12. at 08:41 AM on 4 August 2010, Alf wrote:
    I was recently offered a job in the NT for $50/hr and one prior to that in South Australia around $45/hr. The jobs are out there you just gotta know where to look folks.
13. at 04:58 PM on 2 August 2010, minh wrote:
    The hopeless Guild should not be part of the negotiation. We need someone who can represent us as whole profession. The situation will get worse if we continue to let the Guild running the show. The Guild is good at talking without action.
14. at 11:54 PM on 30 July 2010, Stuart wrote:
    It's obvious that Kos and the Guild are in league with the Government to drive down costs in the pharmacy sector. As part of that the Guild has aggreed to accept a cut in remuneration on behalf of pharmacies whilst giving tacit support for an increase in pharmacy schools which drives down costs (i.e. to employ a pharmacist) for owners and provides money for the universities with the fees paid by the poor saps who are enrolling in the umpteen pharmacy courses now offered. This is money that the Government doesn't have give the unis hence it is seen as a win for Government! The Government couldn't give a stuff about pharmacy and is just interested in reducing costs and unfortunately our lobby group doesn't represent the profession's interests. The AMA isn't concerned only with those doctors in private practice, is it? We need a new lobby group that represents the whole profession and we need to show the Government that all those minor rashes and colds and flus that we consult on for free are actually saving the Goverment $66 each time (the cost of a Medicare standard consult). Untill we rub the Government's nose in this and get effective leadership, (like the doctors) we will continue to be a petty profession that is belittled by Government and owners who chose to pay someone university qualifed the wages of a cleaner!
15. at 08:50 PM on 30 July 2010, Sarah wrote:
    I'm an intern pharmacist at the moment and I have been following the issue of pharmacist employment opportunities for some time now. I can see that with supply outstripping demand for pharmacists, of course we are going to see wages go down, which is unfortunate for people like me who entered the pharmacy degree with high expectations. Since starting my degree and doing my internship, my expectations are becoming much more realistic. I would like to know however what it takes to get hired as a pharmacist, what do owners want? I got good grades at uni, possess good counselling and communication skills and a glowing reference from my employer, yet it still took quite a while to secure an intern position. The pharmacy where I am doing my internship is very much a traditional pharmacy, and loyal regular customers are the heart of the business. As the pharmacy is already fully staffed, I will be unable to stay on after my internship. I have experience in a larger pharmacy (18 months at a Terry White), DAA and NDSS experience, have worked with both FRED and MINFOS and I have experience in most other areas of community pharmacy. I am also keen to become accredited after obtaining my registration as well as undertaking further learning/professional development opportunities. I am based in Brisbane but I would be willing to consider a rural position in Queensland/northern NSW depending on what was on offer. So to all the guild members out there, based on my brief resume I am curious, would any of you be willing to hire me once registered for more than $25 an hour?
16. at 12:19 PM on 27 July 2010, Terry Ravizm wrote:
    @Stan Smith. Good work son. But with respect I only pay market clearing rates and my head managing pharmacists do perhaps a similar amount of work for the equivalent of probably $20/hour considering the unpaid work (open/close - must be present half an hour before open, meetings, take home rostering/planograms/quality care. I tell my pharmacists that this is capitalism and they are investing in an opporunity to be on the other side one day. $70/hour - why on earth would I pay it if I don't have to? @Anonymous: Yes I paid for my GT3 with "pharmacy service dollars" - wow what a currency that is. Come and work for me and ill pay you award plus $100 pharmacy service dollars/hour. Sounds like God gifted you with ignorance and impotence and your obviously making the most of it. @Sky: Those groups are pathetic. It's all blabber. Have they formed a union? Are they capitalised? Have they got a lobby strategy? Any hard numbers on what they demand? Of course not. @Fred: My staff turnover is good with respect to pharmacists, because they know there are no jobs elsewhere!!!! Hoorah. Besides, any decent owner knows never to rely on your staff otherwise they will hamstring you....you have to be prepared to have all your staff leave on the same day and open up shop on time. In fact, I could have two shops walk out at lunchtime and be able to re-open by 3pm. I run my business a little staff heavy but my operating expenses have never been cheaper....jokes on you. Pharmacy is about cowards and cowboys. I know it's a bit much to ask you to do more than stick a label on a bottle but can you guess which group non-owners belong to? Time for golf. Now there is a sport!
17. at 01:29 PM on 25 July 2010, Stephen Young wrote:
    As a young owner of an independent pharmacy, I have to say pharmacy as a profession is doomed if we don't do anything about it, and the increasing number of university places being offered is not helping it. This is going to be long, but just read what I have to say. From a pharmacy owner's perspective, I have a multi-million dollar loan to pay off and the banks still charge us the same rate irrespective of what goes on in the industry. a) We are facing continuous pressure from the Government, who has just made another cut to our remuneration in the fifth agreement. b) We are facing penalty rates (not just with pharmacists), both of the above was not factor in the price I bought the pharmacy for. c) Chemist Warehouse with their 30% market share is the Woolworths in our industry and is continuously squeezing our margins(who really cares about Woolworths and Coles now?) d) Even up to now, no one in the profession has come up with some professional service that the consumer is willing to pay for (no business case). Pharmacists have to realise that when our remuneration drops, with our outgoings and repayment staying the same, something has to give. Both my wife and I are pharmacists and we put in 80 hours of work each week and we get less than one equivalent pharmacist wage for the extra work and the extra stress on top of our regular wage. That's why when the Guild is fighting for the owners for our remuneration and our position, they are fighting for your jobs as well. Most owners are good people and they care for their staff. Unfortunately, the individual pharmacy owners do not have control on our pricing (the Government and Chemist Warehouse do), and one of the only few variables we have control of is the number of staff hours (not even the wages). Cutting staff also means cutting services which in turn only aggravates the problems we have at hand. We are located in a metro area outside of a major city and we are struggling to find quality pharmacists. What I am paying my pharmacists are more than what I had ever been paid in all my working life. Yet, during my interviews for many recent graduates, there was less than a handful that showed the care and passion that both my wife and I have as the most accessible health professional for the public. What everyone, especially recent graduates, pre-reg and current pharmacy students, needs to realise is that jobs and good pay will continue to be available for the people who deserve it. Until the industry wakes them up and does something about the intake of pharmacy students, unless you can show care and passion towards the industry, you will be struggling to find work, and it's no one’s fault by yours. For the pharmacists who have the passion in the industry, I am sure we can beat the trend and able to renew our profession to be better able to serve the public and enjoy the rewards at the end. My biggest worry is that the rift that is developing within the industry is going to implode into ourselves before that day happens. The pharmacy bodies, Government and the universities will need to start addressing some of these issues to prevent that day from happening.
18. at 12:37 PM on 25 July 2010, Jim wrote:
    Beginning of this year, the Pharmacy Guild submitted a proposal to the Federal Government to reduce pharmacists' benefits and wage rates. Please visit the websites. http://www.apesma.asn.au/professions/pharmacists/media/2010/union-claims-victory-on-award-12-02-10.pdf , http://www.apesma.asn.au/professions/pharmacists/media/2010/bid-for-shorter-shifts-rejected-12-02-10.pdf , http://www.apesma.asn.au/professions/pharmacists/media/2010/award-submissions-rejected-12-02-10.pdf
19. at 01:57 PM on 23 July 2010, GEN Y PHARMACIST wrote:
    All pharmacists – from community, hospital, newly registered, experienced pharmacists and students should join this face-book page “Australian pharmacists are doomed unless we stand up for ourselves”. The pharmacy profession is currently in the midst of much turbulence. This free on-line forum allows for discussion and collation of ideas on how pharmacists may be able to move forward from here. It also helps to raise awareness on any important topics that affect the wider profession and its future. There are already some great ideas and articles posted on the page. Check it out and join in on the discussion.
20. at 01:54 PM on 23 July 2010, Pharmacist wrote:
    Stan Smith – you are not registered as a pharmacist in any state or territory on the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency online list. So we can only conclude that your story, along with your identity, is a fraud. Managing pharmacists earn around $30-35/hour, not to mention the unpaid overtime that is usually required to open and close up. It is a shame that you would use this website to mislead pharmacy students into false dreams.
21. at 11:23 PM on 22 July 2010, Jim wrote:
    Here is some data about pharmacists in the US. Their pay is US dollar $50-60 ph. Average for part-timers and full timers is US$103k and growing at 16% over the coming 3 years. However, Australian pharmacists can't work there. To be a pharmacist there, you need to complete 6-8 years Doctorate of pharmacy degree. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pharmacist/Salary , http://healthcareers.about.com/od/healthcareerprofiles/p/PharmacistJobs.htm , http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-pharmacist.html
22. at 08:50 PM on 22 July 2010, Anonymous wrote:
    @Terry: You say you EARNT your Porsche. Was that because you did well as a business man or did you actually earn it providing pharmacy SERVICES? Please, do enlighten us. You are worth exactly the same as every other pharmacist if you do not grow your pharmacy skills. Your Porsche says heaps about your skills at running a business but not as a pharmacist.
23. at 06:59 PM on 22 July 2010, Stan Smith wrote:
    I have worked hard for 5 years to become a pharmacy manager. I deserve the $70 per hour I get. I manage 40 staff. I work hard and I love my job. My boss is getting a bargain. I do not think all pharmacists could do my job and thus they do not deserve that level of pay. If others think they deserve more than the AWARD rate then they are mislead. It does not happen in any other health profession. If you want more pay per hour show your value! The well paid pharmacists are quietly getting on with their lives. I am proud to be a pharmacist and I advise students it is a great career. Stan - Proud and Satisfied Pharmacist
24. at 03:59 PM on 22 July 2010, Greg O'Toole wrote:
    The only way forward for getting better intern training opportunities has been suggested by Warwick Plunkett - when the AMA insisted the Government had to provide funding for doctors' intern positions the PSA lobbed right in and said that if doctors were to receive funding then so should pharmacists. Rightly so, I think. If a pharmacy owner were getting a tax break (or even a cash incentive) to employ an intern, all of a sudden training places would skyrocket and pharmacies would have three or four interns all offering great quality advice. If you're going to write to Julia Gillard (and/or Tony Abbott) there's something useful to ask for! As an aside, for those of you who really are disillusioned with community practice don't forget options like industry, academia, government and hospital - think outside the box. It used to be all you needed was a BPharm and a pulse to get a job, now you actually have to be able to offer more. Get some different skills, find different experiences and do anything you have to do to make your CV jump off the stack. It's not enough to be "just good enough" these days. In respect to pay, hospital is a good way to go these days, especially since working for the public health system has tax advantages. Brilliant training too.
25. at 01:12 PM on 22 July 2010, Rain wrote:
    Don't worry everyone. Isn't there supposed to be an oversupply of pharmacists nationwide by 2015 (something like that) by which stage we'll all be out of a job and hence won't be complaining about pharmacy...
26. at 12:41 PM on 22 July 2010, CM wrote:
    The idea of having the Guild negotiate for pharmacy is as preposterous as having the only people able to negotiate workers rights be factory owners.
27. at 12:34 PM on 22 July 2010, Jim wrote:
    I have also compiled locum wages for a few health professionals. Doctors $70-200ph depending on shift and urgency. Dentists $60-80ph 9am-5pm weekdays. Div 1 nurses $47-80ph depending on shift. PHARMACISTS $35-60ph depending on shift. PHARMACISTS are still at the bottom of the ladder. I think a reasonable wage should be between $50-100 depending on shift. It take 3.5 x pharmacists pay to be able to afford an average house nowadays.
28. at 12:26 PM on 22 July 2010, Jim wrote:
    I have compiled a few skilled tradies hourly average wage here. Electrician $50 ph, electrician high voltage $100ph, plumber $70ph, painter $42ph, bricklayer $48ph, excavator $50ph, PHARMACIST $30ph. Pharmacists are at the bottom of the ladder. And tradies pay goes up with CPI every year. I think reasonable pay for pharmacists should be $50-60ph and $80-100 after hours.
29. at 07:28 PM on 21 July 2010, John wrote:
    I'm not to sure what planet you are all living on but it's not the same as ours. We run two pharmacies in North Coast regional towns in NSW. They are not overly small towns - 70,000 & 20,000. Our biggest problem is trying to find a pharmacist to employ. We have few locums available and the ones that are tend to be over booked. We ran adverts with all the agencies to no avail. Listening to these young pharmacists complain about lack of good jobs, poor wages and conditions and about their future in the profession, all I can say is take some risks. We did, contrary to what you may think. Sitting in Sydney or Melbourne and complaining about things is not going to get you anywhere. You would tend to think that if there is such a glut of pharmacists in the big cities that they would filter out to regional towns, but alas, no.
30. at 05:16 PM on 21 July 2010, jack wrote:
    Been a pharmacist for 10 years and never seen it so bad. Guild = greedy white boomers who'll sell their mothers (along with the toilet rolls in their shops) for a penny. My advice to all students, get out while you still can. A couple of years wasted on part of a pharmacy degree is better than a lifetime of doubt (debt) and regret.
31. at 03:53 PM on 21 July 2010, Jarrad wrote:
    I love the way owners say "pharmacists are not a protected species", yet they have business location laws that ensure THEY are a protected species.
32. at 01:26 PM on 20 July 2010, Sky wrote:
    Terry, please do your research before calling others incompetent, it shows your own ignorance and incompetencies. FYI: there are at least 2 facebook groups set up about this issue. They are, 'Pharmacist of Australia are doomed if we don't stand up for ourselves'; and 'Limit Pharmacy Student Places'. And no, you earn your Porsche by exploiting young pharmacists, you're just as bad as a sweat shop owner.
33. at 01:04 PM on 20 July 2010, fred wrote:
    Terry - these new graduates do nothing but whinge? Hang on isn't that exactly what you're doing? I'm wondering what your staff turnover is like. Why is it that some owners seem to get lucky and have great (young) pharmacists working for them who stay for a long time, while other owners seem to get the dregs and "hopeless sacks of s***" like you seem to have done? It's nothing to do with luck mate - see John Houghton's comment. It starts at the top. The best companies in the world have charismatic leaders that motivate their staff and look after them well. It's quite amazing to see yourself and Pam Mathers stereotype young pharmacists in such a negative light - perhaps a stereotype of owners is that they're all rich, drive Porsches, pay their pharmacists $25 p/h, and whinge about them on online forums? Which of course is untrue, right?
34. at 12:07 PM on 20 July 2010, john wrote:
    Terry Ravizm, paying your pharmacists $25/h isn't really something to brag about, as the lower you pay them the lower you get in return so I'm guessing your profit margin is about to take a beating. Oh wait, you could only afford a Porsche, I guess it already has :) Maybe if the Guild was run by some other body, that wasn't made up by owners, then pharmacy might start moving in a positive direction.
35. at 08:43 AM on 20 July 2010, Terry Ravizm wrote:
    Well done Kos, Pam, and John. These new graduates are lazy hopeless individuals who can do nothing but whinge. You would think if they were actually competent they would utilise social networking to band together...but alas they are hopeless sacks of s*** who don't realize that we all went through the same as them. I earned my Porsche fair and square. My chain pays pharmacists $25/hr because that is all they deserve...
36. at 07:21 PM on 19 July 2010, Len Howard wrote:
    My brother is a dentist, recommended me to do pharmacy. After researching, I found that pharmacists earn too little. Chiros earn $180-300k yearly, dentists $140-250k, GPs $150-250k, physios $90-125k, nurses $70-180k, pharmacists $40-80k. Many pharmacists can't even find work, settling for $25ph. My friend works as a toilet cleaner for IGA, he earns $23ph.
37. at 07:16 PM on 19 July 2010, Keyas wrote:
    What I am about to say is nothing new, we all know that pharmacy schools are churning out more pharmacists than there are pharmacies and that pharmacists get paid peanuts and sometimes bananas, but changing professions is not the answer. With Australia's growing population and more and more schools opening up in every profession there will be an oversupply of all professions. There are more and more med schools taking in more and more students and so if you do decide to change to med by the time you graduate there might an oversupply of doctors, dentists, lawers etc. So changing professions is not the way go. Pharmacy is what pharmacists make it! You can a) be a regular pharmacist working for a private shop competing against those giants and lose. Or b)be a pharmacist who goes out of their way and provides effective counselling and shows genuine concern about people's health and reinforcing your customers perception of pharmacists as health professionals.
38. at 06:48 PM on 18 July 2010, Nik wrote:
    Pharmacists have to form a union so they can fight for their work rights and conditions. The Pharmacy Guild is working against the pharmacy profession and in the interests of owners ONLY. I saw their proposal to Governmet to cut penalty rates on Sundays for pharmacists and they are behind the mass pharmacist pump out from the universities.
39. at 11:45 AM on 17 July 2010, Frank wrote:
    Join the facebook group 'Limit pharmacy student places' to voice your opinion and form an online petition.
40. at 03:04 PM on 16 July 2010, career pharmacist wrote:
    I'm really disappointed with a lot that has been said on this board - the fact is the Guild is damaging to community pharmacy, however the attitudes of a lot of pharmacists is equally damaging. Although I disagree with most of what Pam has said - typical owner -I do agree that the profession is what you make of it. If you are willing to educate yourself, and put in some effort rather than sit on your ass in a dispensary and do a mediocre job, the profession is so much more rewarding. For those of you who whinge about no career direction - are you waiting for the profession to come to you or are you willing to lead the profession in new directions? The fact is without people leading the profession into the future we're stuck with poor "pharmacy advocates" like the Guild. I now work in project management and I'm passionate about clearly labelling myself as a pharmacist, because I'm passionate about being one. I also work in community on weekends (equally as rewarding) and do HMRs. I also find the "qualifications" of some community pharmacists laughable. Learning doesn't stop at a B.Pharm - go out and continue to learn if you want to move into higher paying jobs. The degree is what you want to make of it and the sooner the whinging pharmacists are out of this profession the better. Respect comes to those who work hard and are passionate about being pharmacists. If you want your 6 figure money - work your ass off for it like the rest of us have had to. If you carry out a technician's role - expect to be paid accordingly.
41. at 01:59 PM on 16 July 2010, Roger, PharmD wrote:
    Hello, I enjoyed reading your article. I used to work as a retail and hospital pharmacist in the United States and now help do some blogging and pharmacy research for www.drugschools.com. It is for similar concerns expressed in your article that this website was created. Drugschools.com tracks the rise of pharmacy schools in the U.S. and how it is affecting the demand for pharmacists in each state. -Roger, Rph
42. at 05:11 PM on 15 July 2010, David wrote:
    The rumblings are beginning. In five years when the Guild is negotiating the next agreement and there are 2000 pissed off pharmacists out of work or doing another degree, all writing to their local minister of parliament about what a joke this profession is, I think we'll see Woolies and Coles move in. So they should too.
43. at 10:25 PM on 12 July 2010, Ed wrote:
    Im a fourth year student and I'm getting really, really worried which is why I'm looking through and reading articles like these. Back in high school, a pharmacist was promoted as a job in high demand but it seriously doesn't look like it is anymore. The universities are taking in way too many students. In my school alone the annual intake quota increased from ~250 to ~350 in a few years. The entry requirements have also fallen from an OP2 to an OP4. Low wages is one thing, but even finding a pre-reg position is freakin hard! Some of my friends are not even trying to get positions in their city but going to regional areas because they know it's going to be too hard.
44. at 02:17 PM on 12 July 2010, Yien wrote:
    It's very interesting reading the comments section. I'm in the middle of a B.Pharm degree after deciding on a career switch, ironically from a health profession suffering from the same problems you're all addressing now. Mel, I'm finding comfort in the fact you've found the skill set transferrable to other sectors. Would love to hear more of your experience with that.
45. at 04:52 PM on 9 July 2010, Sam wrote:
    The pharmacy profession has become a joke and I too am disillusioned like the rest of you. In many ways, community pharmacists are like script factory workers, but the only difference is that they have less rights and entitlements to breaks and wage negotiations. The universities accept as many students as will pay (hence make lots of money from continuing to do so) and teach what happens in an idealistic world which is very different to the real world. After all, how many of them are actually practising pharmacists? On top of that, the Guild has a strangle hold over the profession and look after their own profiteering interests. They claim to have fought off the supermarkets to save our profession. Yet so many of their members have turned pharmacies into supermarkets. I am disgusted every time I pass a discount pharmacy which sells our profession as the local $2 shop. I would welcome Woolworths or Coles taking over because it would mean that pharmacists would have greater power to negotiate with a large corporation around wages, rather than be powerless like we are now. My advice to Bushra and any pharmacy student is to transfer to another profession whilst you can. There is very little career progression either in community or hospital settings and employers are willing to cut your pay for their own profits. At this rate, being a check-out-chick at Woolworths could see you earning about the same for a lot less responsibility.
46. at 01:25 AM on 8 July 2010, Morgan wrote:
    Everyone write to Gillard about your concerns! http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/member.asp?id=83L
47. at 05:15 PM on 7 July 2010, Morgan wrote:
    Please Pam. 35 years ago you get a 110% loan from the bank to buy out any pharmacy you wanted. You actually waited around for 25 yrs to buy one. You are the one that didn't put in effort to own a pharmacy. Don't try to patronise the rest of us that have to work a LOT harder now to own a pharmacy.
48. at 02:22 PM on 7 July 2010, Mel wrote:
    For all those disillusioned pharmacists out there - I'm with you. Our lecturers crowed of a bright future & influence in the community. It sounds beautiful and it should be that way - we are so over-qualified for the sort of work community pharmacy offers today. The reality is, script-churning makes more money than the long, detailed interviews they teach you to do in uni. And the competitive machinery started by the likes of MyChemist are tearing down the teamwork we used to see between individual pharmacies. We used to exist to care for our communities! While there are plenty of people out there with that desire, I see less and less of that today. I worked in community for all my student years and was completely fed up and disillusioned by the time I graduated. I work in hospital now - and I find it a much better place to use those skills I studied so hard for. But I'm finding that the skill-set we're trained for is very versatile - I'm now moving into project management and such companies that I've worked with are eager to snap up pharmacists who are flexible, sharp thinkers, who have IT skills, and know their stuff. The opportunities are definitely out there - but it takes hard work and being responsible for your own career. You can't expect to rock up to work and make your fortune. Having said that - pharmacy owners, the Guild and all those mushrooming pharmacy schools: you're writing our future, and you'll be held responsible for it. May you have the foresight and the wisdom to make the right decisions and stand for what really matters for the future of pharmacy in Australia.
49. at 01:10 PM on 7 July 2010, John Hougton wrote:
    Pam Mathers - attitudes from employers will of course change. However be aware if you surround yourself in too much negativity over your employees, you will drive more and more pharmacists from the profession thereby creating another shortage...but this time a shortage of DECENT, HIGH QUALITY pharmacists. I doubt many decent pharmacists who know their worth will work for $25/hr their employers hope for. Which pharmacist here is willing to earn slightly above a dispensary tech's wage for all the risk dealing with peoples' health and indeed their very lives, registration, insurance & CPD costs they have to take on board? Not to mention the long hours with no breaks. Any takers? No, of course not. You would only be left with the dredges, desperate and drop-outs.
50. at 10:26 AM on 2 July 2010, Pam Mathers wrote:
    As a pharmacy owner for about 10 years and an employed pharmacist for 25 years before that when are pharmacists going to realise they are not a protected species. I pay top rates to pharmacists I employ and with the exception of one or two have always been bitterly disappointed with the return on the investment. I do more effective counselling, professional program provision, CPD and value adding than any of my employed pharmacists. They just don't get it and that is why so many are discontented. They want the big bucks but don't want to work to earn it. The days of occupying a seat and getting paid $35 per hour are gone. Get off the seat and connect with customers - earn some income for the business by using your expertise and in the process find some job satisfaction as well.
51. at 08:18 PM on 28 June 2010, 1st year pharm student wrote:
    Actually most second year students are quite disillusioned about the pharmacy profession. You don't have to a genius to figure out the profession is going nowhere. I'm a first year student and I know that I'll have roughly only 8~10 yrs of work as a registered pharmacist if nothing changes. I'm okay with that. If you aren't then you should do something to stop this madness. The schools don't care and the Guild CLEARLY does not care. Actually, the pharmacy owners stand to hugely benefit from hiring cheap pharmacists. We have to stop pharmacy education in its tracks. STOP CENTERLINK FROM GIVING OUT LOANS TO EVERYONE. ANYONE CAN PUT THEMSELVES INTO DEBT AND GET A PHARMACY DEGREE!
52. at 12:08 PM on 28 June 2010, Sky wrote:
    The Guild has admitted that by 2013 there will be an excess of 2009 pharmacists. If pharmacists are getting paid $25/hour now, wait until there's a true excess - then pharmacists will be officially paid less than a waiter in a restaurant. With more and more pharmacies going into the discount models, wage to sale ratio becomes even more crucial in cutting pharmacists wage to survive. So, it's not just the pharmacy profession that is dying, the whole industry is dying and we've got no one to blame because we let the very people who screwed us this whole time represent us.
53. at 11:05 PM on 27 June 2010, Jane wrote:
    Hey second year pharmacy student below. I can tell you're in second year because of your over-optimism. It's cute, makes me smile... but you haven't been in the real world yet. Wait until that happens, you'll change your mind, and do dent like I did.
54. at 02:38 PM on 25 June 2010, John Hayes wrote:
    Raj: if nothing is done you'll find it very hard (as are many students now)to even able to get a decent trainee position in Australia once you complete the course. Pharmacy offers very little career progession to graduates. Once you complete your internship most end up in community where the starting pay in metro areas is around $28/hr. That's right, about $8 more than a non-university educated, dispense tech. Then you may max out as a PIC in a few years in the $30's. Plumbers get more than that! That is, if you can find a job...
55. at 01:30 PM on 22 June 2010, raj wrote:
    I am a second year pharmacy student, and looking at the negative opinions of some people on the pharmacy career has made me wonder whether people realise that its not just pharmacy where income is being reduced, a lot of other careers are. Pharmacy as an overall profession is a booming career and new roles are being assigned to pharmacists. As pharmacy is moving on to a more palliative role dealing with the patient before doctors we need to realise that in the future pharmacy will be more hands on rather than sitting behind the cash register. We cannot say for sure 1500 pharmacists are churned out my universities, most of these students end up working overseas, move into business or hospital or even army. A lot of students also use this degree as a stepping stone into med or dentistry, in my class a lot of the students are overseas students and are hoping to go back to America and work as a pharmacist there rather than Australia. Careers such as accountants, lawyers, physios engineers, all these careers are paying their graduates a lot less than what they used to 10 years ago. In every career money is an issue and it all comes down to how hard you work as an individual. Every person who was ever rich started from the bottom earning peanuts. Everyone wants top pay once they graduate but once you are out of university the new challenge begins in the real world. It all points to who is the better pharmacist. I am not changing my career because of salary differences or because of people's negative opinions of the profession, in the end we all need pharmacists and if you are motivated to do well, you will do better.
56. at 11:45 PM on 18 June 2010, Steven wrote:
    By producing more and more pharmacy graduates ,we are becoming a burden to government by becoming affilated with center link or just getting paid to buy our two meals per day. Situation is so pathetic that there is no work available at rural ares too. Its better to become a security guard in a hospital by investing 350 dollars than becoming a unemployed pharmacist and pay for PDL insurance and CPD on the top.What a joke ?
57. at 06:36 PM on 15 June 2010, Anonymous wrote:
    I wouldn't recommend anyone to take up a pharmacy degree. If you're lucky and find a long term/permanent position around the metro area, it's decent enough money. Or you could 'harden-up' and go rural and earn a whole lot more. Of course, you'd lose a fair chunk of it to salary taxes anyway, but you'll be living pretty comfortably. Making millions from pharmacy; not going to happen unless you're lucky, luckier, rich and skilled in management (in that order). Glorified dispense techs, wannabe-doctors, snake oil salesperson is what people call pharmacists and I can see why. Our professional knowledge is in reality, mostly a safety net for all prescribing screw-ups which really shouldn't happen that often. Much like prophylactic antibiotic usage but that's off topic. If you do decide to do pharmacy anyways, you can at least hold your head high for being a professional. :)
58. at 10:35 PM on 9 June 2010, jmedlen3@hotmail.com wrote:
    I dont know what a pharmaceutical pharmacist is, but pharmacists still earn a decent wage. I would say on average about 35/hour. Problem is the oversupply is only beginning and in the next few years you wont be able to walk down the street without seeing a pharmacist. Be interesting how it all pans out.
59. at 01:45 AM on 9 June 2010, Bushra wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm a student currently doing my A Levels and I am totally freaked out seeing these comments. I'm planning to study pharmacy and open a pharmaceutical but is it true that pharmacists are getting such low wages????!!! Or is this only for the ones who sit in pharmacy and not for pharmaceutical pharmacists? Please help - should I change my career option?
60. at 08:14 PM on 3 June 2010, Andrew wrote:
    I am a UK pharmacist and have been in Australia less than a year. I have found it very easy to get work & currently I earn $48/hr. Harden-up - take a rural job, get some experience and then you will be a great pharmacist.
61. at 10:59 PM on 1 June 2010, James wrote:
    Pharmacy - the degree to nowhere.
62. at 12:32 PM on 30 May 2010, sam wrote:
    In NZ the minimum wage may be $12.50 an hour, but starting rate for community pharmacist with only an internship year is $30/hour & there are increases + bonuses & for a pharmacist with 5-8 years experience being offered minimum award rate is totally & utterly disgusting. Why bother 4yrs of a proffessionaly course + 1 yr internship & all the resposibilities to get paid the same as a pharmacy technician?? And pay off a 30+K student debt as well !!!!
63. at 02:26 PM on 16 May 2010, Raja wrote:
    Conditions of APEC pharmacists is worst. APEC exam is very hard and I have seen pharmacists returning to their countries after disappointing job prospects.
64. at 01:26 AM on 20 April 2010, al wrote:
    whats the main purpose of this article?? to brain wash all australian pharmacist to take pay cut and work for the benefit of pharmacy owners?? people can easily google and find out California pharmacist getting paid 40k per year is completely false. they get paid around 40 to 50 per hour and around 90 to 110k per year with signing bonus
65. at 09:29 PM on 31 March 2010, Simon Tubbs wrote:
    I am a mature age first year pharmacy student and I after hearing this I might change my course of study. If I wanted to get paid such a low minimum wage, I would have left school at 16 to work at Woolworths. It’s a shame unskilled labor almost compare in pay to a profession that requires 4 years of specialised education at University (and a 12 month placement). This long term strategic direction of the guild will only lead to a lower skilled workforce, ultimately putting the large retailers in a better position to take control of pharmacy from small business owners.
66. at 04:55 PM on 29 March 2010, Chris wrote:
    Pharmacy is a crap profession - let me tell you that. I hope one day supermarkets will take over pharmacies and bankrupt the greedy pharmacy owners. Let supermarkets have a stranglehold over the ownership of pharmacies and soon the profession will cease to exist. University lectureres will have no one to lecture to and the Pharmacy Board of Australia will no longer exist.
67. at 05:45 PM on 24 March 2010, john wrote:
    i think the pharmacy guild is looking after the sake of the owners only and they shouldn't represent our career as they oversupplied the country with pharmacists and they are doing nothing to increase their roles and provide jobs
68. at 01:32 PM on 22 March 2010, AustralianPharma wrote:
    Pharmacists, as a whole, are pushovers. While nurses will strike if their pay isn't increased 'enough', we don't say boo when ours is decreased. Just a thought. www.askapharmacist.com.au
69. at 10:46 PM on 17 March 2010, Mohamed wrote:
    I agree with every word u've said Alexa....I am really thinking of changing my profession.
70. at 01:16 PM on 25 February 2010, Loi wrote:
    It’s nothing we can do about this. All the universities are craving for more profit, so they do not care whether the futures of their students are remained viable. It’s shameful to see such a good profession have to demolish their repetition because of the un-well trained new graduates and the greediness of all the universities. I can ensure you one thing, 3-4 years later when everyone realize that studying pharmacy have no future, then no one will enroll into the course and the universities with no student enroll have to shut their school. So best of luck to those new school of pharmacy and I hope will come up with a good plan if this happen to you.
71. at 10:28 AM on 23 February 2010, anonymous wrote:
    I looked at the most recent study and yes there are 1400 pharmacy graduates each year in Australia. That was a 2006 study. There is no telling if it is 1500 or 1600 now. Seeing how there are only 5000 pharmacies and less than 1000 working hospital pharmacists I dont see how there wont be a glut of pharmacists in the future. There doesn't seem to be a future in pharmacy. In the mean time schools will be profiting and so will pharmacy owners who will be able to employ pharmacists for next to nothing. There doesn't seem to be any way of making the 14 pharmacy schools limit their enrollment.
72. at 05:41 PM on 15 February 2010, Mahta wrote:
    As a mother of recent graduate of pharmacy I am totally disappointed from prospect of any job or good pay for my daughter. I now realise that all the systems including large number of Pharmacy places in universities as well all the Hardship in the course has been setup biased towards the owners of Pharmacies to provide them with abundent cheap work force.I discourage parents considering pharmacy as higher education for their children as it has no future. All negative commnets are real my daughter is intouch with her friends and none of them have found jobs either.
73. at 06:50 PM on 14 February 2010, John wrote:
    I've been registered for a couple of years now and I can tell you as a a fairly young pharmacist that many of my peers have become disillusioned to profession and have lost hope with it's unsecure future. The fact that there are too many pharmacy schools churning out pharmacist means that there is no longer a shortage of pharmacists and the profession has become saturated. There are not as many job vacancies anymore and the with wages dropping there is no hope. Young pharmacists will be forced to look into moving into another career, and sadly 5 years of study/knowledge will have been wasted. In the long run, pharmacy school enrolments will drop, and therefore standard students during intake will drop. It all seems like pharmacy as a profession is inadvertantly imploding into itself. That is the reality for young pharmacists. No matter what positive outlook the heads of organisations promote, we know what the reality is:job vacancies are minimal, proper wages are harder to come by and ownership has become next to impossible. I would like to think the industry professions are right, but I can't help but think they have become blinded of truth from their own biased views. Unfortunately these people are the only ones who are in a position to make an effective changes and steer the profession in the right direction.
74. at 11:07 AM on 5 February 2010, Tan wrote:
    There are 5000 pharmacies in Australia and each year there are 1400 new graduates. No wonder, some pharmacists would accept $25 per hour! This is very sad indeed.
75. at 08:50 AM on 2 February 2010, Jarrad wrote:
    If wages become too low and jobs too hard to come by, people will bite the bullet and do something else.
76. at 01:28 PM on 11 December 2009, Arthur Czokalski wrote:
    Kos Sclavos justifies falling wages and work conditions on overseas trends. Will he start telling us how good pharmacists have it here compared to Pakistan or Russia next. His pro-owner anti employee stance is so transparent he's laughable.
77. at 07:44 PM on 26 November 2009, Oliver wrote:
    Sam, Alexa sounds American.
78. at 04:19 PM on 25 November 2009, Sam wrote:
    Alexa, what country are those sort of ads from?
79. at 11:49 AM on 20 November 2009, Alexa wrote:
    John Hayes is quite correct. There is always the option to switch out of the profession, especially when young. I seen ads for Dispensary techs and phcy retail managers for between $25-32/hr! Why bother being a pharmacist with all its responsibility when you can get this as a tech!?? Overseas I have seen ads for Pharmacists offering up to AU$15k/month + living allowances. And these places are major cities, not rural areas (like most of Oz!). Pharmacists here are undpaid for the responsibility they have and training they have had, period.
80. at 05:21 PM on 19 November 2009, David wrote:
    John Hayes sounds like he is in the business of enrolling new pharmacy students. To say "disillusioned new pharm grads who cannot find work; you are still young and have time to switch professions if you feel you cannot get a break." is insulting and disgusting. Having spent 4 years in a course with a 25K debt where competition for intern-ships is at a all time high from unnecessary new pharmacy schools says alot about your "IMMENSE demand for excellent pharmacists". This is just misleading and a deliberate lie to further entice new students into an already problematic profession.
81. at 10:25 AM on 6 November 2009, John Hayes wrote:
    A well-educated pharmacist that can actively grow and manage a business whilst serving up his usual fare at a high standard is what I deem to be an excellent pharmacist. These individuals are in fact fairly rare and who I personally look to employ where possible. My sympathies go to all those disillusioned new pharm grads who cannot find work; you are still young and have time to switch professions if you feel you cannot get a break.
82. at 04:21 PM on 5 November 2009, Jon Rippon wrote:
    @John Hayes, are you by any chance working for one of the increasing number of Pharmacy Schools? As one who knows no less than 10-12 high-achieving pre-regs who still can't find internships 1 year after graduation, to those new pharmacists who can't find a pharmacy job after pre-reg even in various rural regions in Vic & NSW, I am interested to know where you are getting your facts from. Btw, "immense demand" & "excellent" are subjective terms. In many businesses nowadays, an "excellent" pharmacist is one who does not demand a pay rise, fills 4-500 scripts a day and does not take lunch/toilet breaks.
83. at 09:30 AM on 5 November 2009, Alexa wrote:
    I would like to see Kos Scavlos work this job for a measly award rate: Experienced FT Pharmacist wanted, heavy script load 400-500+ per day. One disp tech. Other duties inc Counselling, reconciliation of tills and staff rosters. Must have excellent oral and written communication skills, preferably speak another language. Methadone pick up plus Webster checking (approx 50 per week). What professional would do that for $25/hour?? In fact Pharmacists are very low paid for a professional!
84. at 10:16 AM on 2 November 2009, John Hayes wrote:
    I doubt very much this will happen widely in Australia. There will always be IMMENSE demand for excellent pharmacists. Australian pharmacy is in a strong position.

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